Subject: Re: AMIGO GOING FORWARD

Follow-up Remarks from Debra Ryan (Certified Avian Specialist  & Associate of Forest Park Aviaries, Ohio). "Hi M..., I'm so happy that Amigo made the trip safely and getting settled into your home. With Amigo being a baby bird who is just going on 10 weeks old, the very long travel day and then seeing someone totally new, different cage, etc. will cause a bit of stress with a young bird. My first recommendation is to allow Amigo a couple days in the cage to get settled and check everything out as well as taking in his/her new environment from the protection of the cage. Please have a radio or tv on for background noise and it would be a great idea to sit nearby and read or just talk quietly to him (I gravitate to calling Amigo a boy but there was no DNA done on him/her). After a couple days, you may want to open the cage door and sit nearby and see if he comes to the door. Amigo loves an open door and if I opened his door and got distracted, I found him near me shortly thereafter. Taking the extra time and allowing him to settle and progress at his own pace will serve you well in the long run. The least amount of stress for the first week is best to allow him to settle and not affect his health. I believe you mentioned in your email to Geoff that he is eating and I would recommend that you do not put hoods on your food or water dishes. Some cages come with dishes with hoods and a lot of birds will not approach them no matter how thirsty or hungry they may become. You have a real sweet bird and as he settles in, you will see the wonderful personality come out. Please keep in mind that he was only around Geoff, Dixie and myself since he was weaned and became accustomed to us and how we handled him. As he gets comfortable, he should step up on your finger...just ensure to approach slowly and speak softly and ensure to praise him when he does something you ask. Patience is key and he just needs to understand that this is now his home. I would also recommend covering his cage at night...I do this for two main reasons...1) added sense of security to get a good solid 12 hours quiet sleep and 2) added warmth at night. He loves red grapes and kale (be certain to rinse well ... I use "Veggie Wash" for my fruits and veggies to ensure they are rinsed well). also, there is a cooked mixture that the birds (particularly the green cheeks) love...I cook "plain" couscous. you can find it in the rice/pasta section of the grocery. comes in a small box. You just boil water, add the couscous, remove from heat, cover for 5 minutes. I then cool it, mix it with flax seed, red palm oil and peas and corn. Nice healthy offering for birds. You can cook a batch and it keeps for about 4 days in the fridge. If Amigo flutters to the ground and is hesitant to step up, as Geoff stated do not go from behind...however, if you go very slowly with both hands, one at each side and gently talk to him and just cup him, he will remain calm. You can bring him to your chest and slowly place on your finger. It will be fine before you know it as he is figuring you out as well as you are getting acclimated to him. Once you gain his trust and he realizes that you will not hurt him, the bond will begin and not break. I will send another email in the near future which will address "nipping". All birds go through it as it's a baby thing and I'll walk you through that stage. It's pretty much their adolescent stage. Birds feel everything with their birds which the tip is very sensitive so the initial stage they can get a bit stronger with their "feel". I'll write on that soon. If you have any questions and want to speak with me live, my cell # is 440-376-2323 or just email me and I normally check email a few times daily. All the best to you and Amigo!!! Debbie " (Certified Avian Specialist, & Associate of Forest Park Aviaries, Ohio).

Reply from Dr.Geoff (4/16/2009 am):

"Good morning, 
Thank you for your swift follow-up e-mail confirming Amigo's safe arrival. 
I am just a little surprised that Amigo did not respond somewhat more favorably 
to your initial approaches, although we need to make proper allowances for the 
fact that Amigo had been stuck in a travel carrier for some 15 hours, coupled 
with having to cope with all the rigors of his/her air travel and handling at 
four different airports! Quite an ordeal for a young bird, and certainly enough 
to trigger defensive responses from Amigo. We thank you for your understanding 
and favorable remarks on all the other aspects. 
Yes, Debra is with us here this morning working with the birds in our nursery 
and would be pleased to offer her comments & suggestions for your consideration 
re Amigo later today. 
My first reaction is to advise that you allow a day or two for Amigo to adjust 
generally to the new home environment, with warmth (around 70 degrees) & 
background music to provide a good level of comfort. Then start to work on 
step-ups, etc. perhaps using a couple of treats just outside the cage door for 
enticement (bribery!) purposes. Always make it clear to the bird what your 
intentions are - slow frontal approach with a perch or your finger (no 
predator-like "grabbing" from behind), etc. - all aimed at inducing Amigo to 
step towards you and out of the cage. Over to Deb ....  (see above entry).
Have a nice day, M....
Geoff - FPA. "
 
 
 
---- melissa <shinyone@echoes.net> wrote: 
 
============= 
Re Forest Park Aviaries-Bred Green-cheeked Conure - Airline-shipped to Scranton, PA, on 4/15/2009
Verbatim Customer Response Next day After Safe Shipping to Scranton, PA

"Well just to let everyone know, Amigo arrived safe and sound....all was 
intact in his travel carrier which was filled with wonderful things for 
him....and he seems like a real sweetheart 
He is in his cage now, which is 15x the size of him, but I guess I'll fill 
it with toys... 
 My only concern is he didn't want to come out of his travel cage,he hid 
towards the back,and we don't know each other yet so i wasn't sticking my 
hand in, so i used a spare perch for him to step on, good thing i did 
because he screached and bit it... now today if I try touching him as he 
hangs on the cage he squawks and tries to bite....I understand he doesn't 
know me so it would take a bit..... 
I would like to know if Debra would have suggestions being she handled him 
as to how i should go about handling him,being he has been handled I don't 
want to break what you guys have started....can she possibly drop me a 
line??????? 
 I would recommend you to anybody looking for a bird, he his very healthy 
looking, travel cage is wonderful and by what it was filled with you see 
that you care about the birds,your not just for profit, and I love the hatch 
certificate, and that is a nicely put together book which i'm going to sit 
now and go thru.... 
 you were top notch all the way thru and I am glad I found you, thank you 
for holding Amigo for me... 
 when I can touch him, I will send out a picture... 
he has been eating all morning and pretty quiet..its funny,his cage is so 
large, you have to look to find him.... 
 Perhaps Debra can drop me a line if she don't mind, and Geoffrey i can't 
thank you enough... "
                        Forest Park Aviaries' Customer, 4/16/09

VERBATIM EXTRACT FROM THE "BIRDS OF A FEATHER - AVICULTURAL SOCIETY" WEBSITE          (as last updated on 1/21/200

BOAF Avicultural Society's Tips for Buying Birds Online

1. "There are different types of sellers, ask the person you talk to what kind of seller they are.
Home breeders - The birds hatch at home and are hand fed and socialized there.
Hand feeders - Birds are bought from breeders or wholesalers and then hand fed and socialized.
Bird Brokers - They buy and sell birds often. They typically do not raise the birds.
Pet Owners - There are times when a pet owner has to sell their pet.
Wholesalers - Breeders or brokers looking to sell to hand feeders, bird brokers and stores.
Pet Stores - They buy from home breeders and wholesalers."
     Here at Forest Park Aviaries, we are essentially "Home Breeders", although the scope of our efforts in terms of the variety of species we offer, our expanding customer base  and the extent of our USA national shipping coverage ensures our need and ability to extend our operations into several outdoor breeding aviaries.

2. "Try to never buy sight unseen, ask for pictures whenever possible."
     Yes, this is an entirely appropriate requirement. Re our current availabilities, we regularly include digital images to advertise our exotic birds for sale on www.birdbreeders.com and on our own up-to-date Forest Park Aviaries websites, eg at www.fpav.org/ohiobirds1.html . Also, our "availability" images are of the actual birds being offered for sale, and are not from "generic" sources. In circumstances where we have taken a $ deposit on a pre- fully weaned baby bird pending completion of the weaning process here in our dedicated nursery/kindergarten, we offer to e-mail to the customer updated images of their developing new family member. As "policy" here at Forest Park Aviaries, we do not copyright any of the published images of our exotic birds.

3. "Don't be afraid to ask questions.  If you don't like the answers move on. Do your homework.  The more you know the better decision you make.  There are lots of resources on the web to use.  Contact local clubs for information about reputable breeders and stores. Talk to other pet owners."
      Yes, very sound advice! Here at Forest Park Aviaries, we are reasonably generous with our time (via e-mail, telephone, home visits, and our family of websites) towards assisting our existing and intending customers make decisions when selecting their particular "bird of choice". Even seemingly "semi-frivolous" enquiries are addressed  with meaningful feedback, recognising that in many cases we are seeking to assist first-time pet bird buyers. For example, we have published a website, with clickable links, designed to assist customers to other bird selection sites, as well as our other sites rich in digital images of exotic birds we breed here at Forest Park Aviaries. Some of these sites are viewable at/via:
http://www.birdbreedersinternational.com/index.html
http://www.storesdirectoryusa.com/photogallery.html
http://www.storesdirectoryusa.com/photogallery3.html
http://www.forestparkaviaries.org/         - Here, please check out links to our other species pages for more images.

4. "Ask for references if you are at all unsure.  Don't rely just on email. It's worth a phone call to talk to the seller.  You can learn a lot that way. If smoking is an issue, ask.  Ask how the birds are housed and under what conditions."
      Yes, always place the seller under some friendly pressure to ensure that your enquiries are being fairly addressed, always ask in detail questions re the actual origins of the bird and who actually bred & handreared the youngster (especially in the case of pet birds), check whether the birds of interest are closed-banded (for past & ongoing identification purposes), check out the ratings sections on www.birdbreeders.com  for previous customer feedback on the breeder concerned.  Actual written references provided by the seller have little value, as these will certainly be very persuasive as otherwise they would not be offered! If the seller is in any way "evasive", there are probably good reasons for such conduct!

5." Don't be afraid to walk away from a purchase.  If the bird doesn't look right or is not what you were told you don't have to buy.  If there is pressure to buy be wary.  This is hard to do but, sometimes it's the best thing to do."
      Of course, this is correct, and merits no further comment from me!

6. "Ask what type of health guarantee is available.  You typically will get 3 days and it usually requires a vet check very soon after purchase.  Be wary of no guarantees on young birds. Most reputable breeders will stand behind their babies."
      Sounds good in principle! However, such written health "guarantees" in the view of Forest Park Aviaries are generally too legalistic and potentially open to argumentation!  However, we do provide  to our customers with a some 30-page FREE booklet rich in helpful advice and oriented closely towards the ongoing home-care and general maintenance of birds bred and raised here at Forest Park Aviaries. Certainly, an essential aspect of our guidance offered to our customers is to have the bird checked out by a certified avian veterinarian within a couple of days from purchase. Our other Policies & Procedural details, as below,  are published  also at the two sites below: http://www.storesdirectoryusa.com/index.html
www.forestparkaviaries.com 
In the case here of  Forest Park Aviaries, we do NOT provide such a written "guarantee" on the grounds that our "Personal Integrity is Our Guarantee", and we regard our unambiguous second-to-none nationwide reputation as the real safeguard for all our valued customers. We always "stand behind"  our birds, whether they be babies, youngsters, or at any other stage of development - no question!

7. "Don't buy young unweaned babies.  Only experienced hand-feeders should feed young birds.  Some breeders will sell almost weaned birds where the bird eats from a spoon.  There are differing opinions on this, ask questions.  There is a big difference between a buyer asking to hand-feed their potential pet vs. a breeder trying to sell unweaned babies.  There is never a guarantee on an unweaned bird.  To many things can go wrong in hand-feeding and breeders will not extend a guarantee due to all the variables involved."
      Forest Park Aviaries fully endorses all the guidelines covered within these statements published by the BOAF Avicultural Society. Only in very exceptional circumstances would forest Park Aviaries permit the transfer of one of our unweaned youngster into the hands of a third-party for the ongoing weaning of one of our baby birds.

"LIBEL TALE" UPDATE - RE: ASHLAND, OHIO - viewable at:
http://www.hoobly.com/0/0/695976.html

"Here at Forest Park Aviaries, and in response to your enquiries, we now need to publish an update in this matter.
Regrettably, on legal advice, we are not yet in a position to publish the names and affiliations of the perpetrators of this libelous & cowardly abuse, as published by Hoobly member hiding behind the user name "csyt1998116" & directed at Dr.Geoff here at Forest Park Aviaries. So please "watch this space" for upcoming revelations, which will certainly expose the folks responsible, their address and what they do - and to serve as a warning for those who misguidedly may look to do business with these pathetic people in the future!
Incidentally, most may not be aware that this same abuse from "csyt1998116" was published on the free space offered in the ratings section of www.birdbreeders.com, at that time likewise anonymously over the user name "Sandy of Medina" on 4/14/08. So,likewise we will be publishing widely the verbatim text, as published by "Sandy of Medina" of these earlier spiteful, dishonest & cowardly allegations on the internet in due course!)
All the time, we are speculating here on csyt1998116's motive for such disgusting behaviour and abuse of Hoobly/birdbreeders.com. All we can think of is that these folks are simple & simply ignorant and do not understand, seemingly nor does their vet!,the difference between an old "wild-caught" bird band, on the one hand, and a regular commercially-available "open-band", as used by reputable breeders such as Forest Park Aviaries (and marked in very fine inscriptions with identifiers such as "GJG ---") for ongoing identification purposes on previously-unbanded exotic birds.
More to follow, also on Dr.Geoff's Blog, viewable via clickable link at:
http://www.forestparkaviaries.org/blog1.html
Also, I hereby publicly challenge csyt1998116 to provide all doubtfully-available factual information to support their published allegations that Dr. Geoff is an "a---ole",a "scheming a---hole", that "HE LIED", that FPA is "shady" and that "he will tell you anything to make a sale"!
Thanks for this space, Hoobly.
Dr.Geoff
Forest Park Aviaries
Tel: 440-236-6355"

My 11/3/08 Follow-up entry on Hoobly:
"Hoobly member "csyt1998116" now reportedly lives in Norwalk, Ohio - so recent reports are now greatly narrowing our search for this lying & cowardly "bird person". Thanks to those for providing their feedback & helping us in identifying this person for appropriate follow-up action and who continues to libel publicly & anonymously Dr. Geoff of Forest Park Aviaries.
Dr. Geoff - Tel: 440-236-6355."

          Just wanted to refer you good "Friends of Forest Park Aviaries" to the new independently-published AboutUs article covering our exotic bird breeding activities here in Columbia Station, Ohio, and much more, viewable at: http://www.aboutus.org/forestparkaviaries.org . Many thanks for your visit.

Where have all the lories gone? Certainly around the general Ohio, Pennsylvania, Michigan & West Virginia regions, they seem to be very hard to come by! Here at Forest Park Aviaries in Ohio, where we sold out all our Lories a couple or so years ago to concentrate on hookbills, we regularly receive telephone calls & e-mails asking about our availabilities of mainly Rainbow lorikeets -  I am also aware that other lory types are also sought after. Just yesterday, I received a call + e-mail from Anne in PA (her telephone number is available here if you ask) seeking a Rainbow Lory - male or female!  So folks, USA nationwide,please let me know on 440-236-6355 or by e-mail at: fpav@roadrunner.com if you can help Anne or any of the other Lory-lovers out there.

PS. Anne of PA so much wants this bird, and is prepared to travel significant distances to acquire same, meaning that the complications involved in airline shipping to PA/VAmay well not be required.

Geoff.

Question from "Walter" (7/5/200 , as a follow-up to one of my Forest Park Aviaries ads. on www.birdbreeders.com, offering for sale a handfed Brown-throated Conure, hatch date 4/30/2008, in which he refers to another earlier ad.of mine re BTCs from a couple of my Year 2007 hatches - these maturing birds  had progressively reverted to "breeder status", ie. had become "flighty & nippy", and today remain so, because of limited handling in the meantime:
Walter's comment/queries are as follows:
"If one acquires a Brown Throat Conure early in its life, such as this one, is it more apt to socialize with more family members or more apt to bond to a single owner? Do you still have number 11? I'm considering getting a new bird and would prefer to get one that I know has been raised in an aviary and handfed. I am a former owner of a Patagonian Conure, an escapee which I rescued and kept for a number of years. I am also somewhat concerned about your description of another Brown Throat that 'reverted'. Would that have been because it was a breeder and not a pet and may not have had as much socialization? I appreciate your time. Thank you. By the way, do you happen to have an Blue Crown Conures on the way? That is another I have been considering."
My response will follow on this blog soonest, but in the meantime I would appreciate any comments re the "reversion" characteristics of different Conure & Parrot species, accepting of course that as a general rule all Hookbills will revert depending on how much handling they receive! Senegal Parrots in many cases seem to be an exception to this general rule!
Geoff.

I will get on to dealing with Walter's questions in a moment... but first to say that I am often asked by our pet bird customers: "What is the difference between a breeder bird and a pet bird?" I should also mention that it is always a good idea for the customer when getting ready to buy a new bird to ensure that the breeder understands the type of bird being sought - as well as location so the airline shipping aspect can be addressed right up front. Perhaps more on this latter aspect in due course.
Generally, when comparing pet birds and breeder birds, I would speak to the customer in terms of bird-to-bird bonding and bird-to-person bonding, very much along the following lines, stating that:
1. A "breeder bird" (say a Conure, a Parrot, or a Pacific Parrotlet, as examples) to be successful in a breeding situation needs to be thoroughly well-bonded to and to enjoy the companionship of his/her mate, as likewise in a human relationship! Such bonding requires the pair of birds to be highly self-protective, protective to one another, to their eggs & offspring - and indeed to "all that they possess", such as seed, feed & nest-box accommodations, cage, etc. Wearing a pair of gloves might be advisable in certain circumstances! Clearly, such strong pair-bonding would be expected to be at the expense of friendly relations with the caregiver/breeder, who is likely to be regarded by the breeder pair as very much an interloper disturbing their "family home arrangements"! I often find that the breeder pair will be even more protective to their clutch of eggs than to the actual babies they might produce.
2. On the other hand, a "pet bird" needs to be bred and handreared to become totally the opposite in behavioural characteristics. This can usually be achieved by removing the baby (the somewhat dislikeable term "pulling" is generally used for this event)...separating the baby form his/her parents after just a few days from hatch. Even before the baby's eyes have actually opened, with this date-from-hatch event optimally taking place after different lengths of time for different species. This period can be as short as say 7 to 10 days from hatch depending on species.
Once the baby has been transferred to the nursery and the handfeeding process is underway, again regular handling and TLC from the handfeeding person (in our case at Forest Park Aviaries, this is also the breeder, ie. myself, Dr.Geoff!) is an essential feature in the raising of a top-quality handfed pet-quality, family-friendly pet bird - be it a Conure, a Parrotlet or a Parrot.
As the bird is nearing the time when he/she is becoming fully-weaned, and with an increasingly varied diet is being offered to the developing youngster, we will move the youngster from our "Nursery" to our "Kindergarten". During this period, and beyond, when the youngster is receiving a reduced number of handfeedings per day, and therefore less handling for the purpose of pipette- or syringe-feeding, it is important to keep the close handling of the bird at a reasonably high level in order to preserve the pet-like characteristics within the bird, so diligently generated by the breeder during the several weeks of the handfeeding process in the nursery.
During this period in the Kindergarten, not only is the developing young bird trying out different types of feed and treats, importantly now is the time to start the rudimentary stages of the training process, such as the introduction of "bird toys" and teaching "step-ups", etc. All this is important in developing the much sought after pet-quality characteristics within the young bird before the move to the youngster's new home is contemplated. In a word, or two, bird-to-person bonding, and keeping the prcess going thereafter, is the all-important aspect of developing the best-quality pet bird.
Let's discuss "reversion" when next I post within the next couple of days!
Geoff - Forest Park Aviaries, Ohio.